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Won Il Kim, NP

Nurse Practitioner · San Francisco

NPI 1104488089

Medicare standing
Clear
Enrolled, allowed to bill and order, not excluded
Plans that list them
3
1 carrier
Offices
4
Since medical school
8 years
Graduated 2018

Offices

4 locations · University of California San Francisco · UCSF Medical Group Business Services

Looking this up.

Hospitals listed: Marinhealth Medical Center · UCSF Medical Center. That is not proof they admit you there this week.

Plans that list them

3 plans · 1 carrier

A missing listing does not mean out of network. Directories change, and a listing does not cover every office. Call Won Il Kim’s office to confirm they take your plan. Ask about the office you use, its medical group, referrals and appointments.

Plans whose provider directory lists this clinician
Imperial Courage Plan (HMO)Imperial Health Plan of California, Inc.ListedSep 1, 2026
Imperial Dynamic Plan (HMO)Imperial Health Plan of California, Inc.ListedSep 1, 2026
Imperial Senior Value (HMO C-SNP)Imperial Health Plan of California, Inc.ListedSep 1, 2026

Hospitals they work in

2 hospitals

These rate the hospital, not this clinician. Most measures at most hospitals are no different from the national rate.

  • Marinhealth Medical CenterGreenbrae, CAAcute Care Hospital · Government - Hospital District or Authority · Has an emergency department · Birthing-friendlyPart of MarinHealthPatients rate it 3 of 5 · 76% would definitely recommend it
    Overall rating: 5 of 5 starsWorse than the national rate — Perioperative pulmonary embolism or deep vein thrombosis rate: 5.66 (3.59 to 7.73) · 1,505 cases, Jul 2022 – Jun 2024Better than the national rate — Catheter Associated Urinary Tract Infections (ICU + select Wards): 0.177, Oct 2024 – Sep 2025Better than the national rate — Clostridium Difficile (C.Diff): 0.446, Oct 2024 – Sep 2025
  • UCSF Medical CenterSan Francisco, CAAcute Care Hospital · Voluntary non-profit - Other · Has an emergency department · Birthing-friendlyPart of University of California Health, which runs 12 hospitalsHome of UCSF Helen Diller Family Comprehensive Cancer Center, a National Cancer Institute designated comprehensive cancer centrePatients rate it 4 of 5 · 81% would definitely recommend it
    Overall rating: 4 of 5 starsWorse than the national rate — Perioperative pulmonary embolism or deep vein thrombosis rate: 4.9 (3.79 to 6.02) · 7,590 cases, Jul 2022 – Jun 2024Worse than the national rate — Rate of inpatient admissions for patients receiving outpatient chemotherapy: 12.8 (11.3 to 14.4) · 2,019 cases, Jan 2024 – Dec 2024Better than the national rate — Death rate among surgical inpatients with serious treatable complications: 139.4 (110.22 to 168.58) · 452 cases, Jul 2022 – Jun 2024Better than the national rate — Central Line Associated Bloodstream Infection (ICU + select Wards): 0.622, Oct 2024 – Sep 2025Better than the national rate — Clostridium Difficile (C.Diff): 0.626, Oct 2024 – Sep 2025Better than the national rate — MRSA Bacteremia: 0.491, Oct 2024 – Sep 2025Better than the national rate — Ratio of unplanned hospital visits after hospital outpatient surgery: 0.8 (0.7 to 1) · 2,336 cases, Jan 2024 – Dec 2024
See every measure and the patient survey for Marinhealth Medical Center

Behind the star rating — Deaths: 2 better, 6 the same, 0 worse of 8 measures. Safety: 1 better, 6 the same, 0 worse of 7 measures. Readmissions: 3 better, 8 the same, 0 worse of 11 measures. The star rating is worked out from an earlier period than the measures below, so the two can disagree.

Every scored measure at Marinhealth Medical Center
Perioperative pulmonary embolism or deep vein thrombosis rateComplications and deaths5.66 (3.59 to 7.73) · 1,505 casesWorseJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Catheter Associated Urinary Tract Infections (ICU + select Wards)Infections0.177BetterOct 2024 – Sep 2025
Clostridium Difficile (C.Diff)Infections0.446BetterOct 2024 – Sep 2025
Abdominopelvic accidental puncture or laceration rateComplications and deaths0.85 (0 to 1.83) · 1,056 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
CMS Medicare PSI 90: Patient safety and adverse events compositeComplications and deaths1.04 (0.72 to 1.36)No differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Death rate among surgical inpatients with serious treatable complicationsComplications and deaths167.34 (112.58 to 222.09) · 57 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Death rate for CABG surgery patientsComplications and deaths1.9 · 47 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Death rate for COPD patientsComplications and deaths8.5 · 119 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Death rate for heart attack patientsComplications and deaths9.6 · 257 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Death rate for heart failure patientsComplications and deaths9.5 · 428 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Death rate for pneumonia patientsComplications and deaths11.4 · 477 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Death rate for stroke patientsComplications and deaths9.3 · 197 casesNoneJul 2023 – Jun 2025
Hybrid Hospital-Wide All-Cause Risk Standardized Mortality RateComplications and deaths3.1 · 2,827 casesNoneJul 2024 – Jun 2025
Iatrogenic pneumothorax rateComplications and deaths0.18 (0 to 0.38) · 6,990 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
In-hospital fall-associated fracture rateComplications and deaths0.21 (0.02 to 0.41) · 6,838 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Postoperative acute kidney injury requiring dialysis rateComplications and deaths1.41 (0 to 3) · 664 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Postoperative hemorrhage or hematoma rateComplications and deaths2.86 (1.4 to 4.33) · 1,436 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Postoperative respiratory failure rateComplications and deaths10.38 (3.68 to 17.08) · 705 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Postoperative sepsis rateComplications and deaths4.38 (0.72 to 8.04) · 672 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Postoperative wound dehiscence rateComplications and deaths1.66 (0.18 to 3.15) · 300 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Pressure ulcer rateComplications and deaths0.56 (0 to 1.25) · 5,550 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Rate of complications for hip/knee replacement patientsComplications and deaths3.4 · 76 casesNoneApr 2023 – Mar 2025
Central Line Associated Bloodstream Infection (ICU + select Wards)Infections0.396No differentOct 2024 – Sep 2025
MRSA BacteremiaInfections0No differentOct 2024 – Sep 2025
SSI - Colon SurgeryInfections0No differentOct 2024 – Sep 2025
Acute Myocardial Infarction (AMI) 30-Day Readmission RateUnplanned return visits13.1 · 275 casesNoneJul 2023 – Jun 2025
Heart failure (HF) 30-Day Readmission RateUnplanned return visits22 · 427 casesNoneJul 2023 – Jun 2025
Hospital return days for heart attack patientsUnplanned return visits-20.3 · 289 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Hospital return days for heart failure patientsUnplanned return visits3.3 · 494 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Hospital return days for pneumonia patientsUnplanned return visits-4.9 · 499 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Pneumonia (PN) 30-Day Readmission RateUnplanned return visits17.9 · 435 casesNoneJul 2023 – Jun 2025
Rate of emergency department (ED) visits for patients receiving outpatient chemotherapyUnplanned return visits5.5 (3.6 to 8.4) · 93 casesNo differentJan 2024 – Dec 2024
Rate of inpatient admissions for patients receiving outpatient chemotherapyUnplanned return visits11.2 (7.8 to 16) · 93 casesNo differentJan 2024 – Dec 2024
Rate of readmission after hip/knee replacementUnplanned return visits6.6 · 84 casesNoneJul 2023 – Jun 2025
Rate of readmission for CABGUnplanned return visits10.5 · 53 casesNoneJul 2023 – Jun 2025
Rate of readmission for chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) patientsUnplanned return visits19.3 · 111 casesNoneJul 2023 – Jun 2025
Rate of unplanned hospital visits after colonoscopy (per 1,000 colonoscopies)Unplanned return visits13 (10.3 to 16.5) · 2,119 casesNo differentJan 2022 – Dec 2024
Ratio of unplanned hospital visits after hospital outpatient surgeryUnplanned return visits1.1 (0.8 to 1.4) · 670 casesNo differentJan 2024 – Dec 2024

What patients said (1,233 patients answered, 19% of those asked)

Patient survey stars by topic at Marinhealth Medical Center
Cleanliness3
Nurse communication3
Doctor communication3
Communication about medicines2
Discharge information3
Overall hospital rating4
Quietness3
Recommend hospital4
Share of patients giving the best answer at Marinhealth Medical Center
Room was "always" clean68%
Nurses "always" communicated well73%
Doctors "always" communicated well74%
Staff "always" explained56%
Yes, staff "did" give patients this information85%
Yes, staff "did" give patients information about help after discharge85%
Doctors "always" explained things so they could understand71%
Doctors "always" listened carefully72%
Doctors "always" treated them with courtesy and respect80%
Patients who gave a rating of "9" or "10" (high)72%
Staff "always" explained new medications70%
Nurses "always" explained things so they could understand68%
Nurses "always" listened carefully68%
Nurses "always" treated them with courtesy and respect82%
"Always" quiet at night48%
"YES", patients would definitely recommend the hospital76%
Staff "always" explained possible side effects43%
Yes, staff "did" give patients information about possible symptoms85%
See every measure and the patient survey for UCSF Medical Center

Behind the star rating — Deaths: 5 better, 3 the same, 0 worse of 8 measures. Safety: 3 better, 5 the same, 0 worse of 8 measures. Readmissions: 3 better, 5 the same, 3 worse of 11 measures. The star rating is worked out from an earlier period than the measures below, so the two can disagree.

Every scored measure at UCSF Medical Center
Perioperative pulmonary embolism or deep vein thrombosis rateComplications and deaths4.9 (3.79 to 6.02) · 7,590 casesWorseJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Rate of inpatient admissions for patients receiving outpatient chemotherapyUnplanned return visits12.8 (11.3 to 14.4) · 2,019 casesWorseJan 2024 – Dec 2024
Death rate among surgical inpatients with serious treatable complicationsComplications and deaths139.4 (110.22 to 168.58) · 452 casesBetterJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Central Line Associated Bloodstream Infection (ICU + select Wards)Infections0.622BetterOct 2024 – Sep 2025
Clostridium Difficile (C.Diff)Infections0.626BetterOct 2024 – Sep 2025
MRSA BacteremiaInfections0.491BetterOct 2024 – Sep 2025
Ratio of unplanned hospital visits after hospital outpatient surgeryUnplanned return visits0.8 (0.7 to 1) · 2,336 casesBetterJan 2024 – Dec 2024
Abdominopelvic accidental puncture or laceration rateComplications and deaths1.24 (0.58 to 1.9) · 4,689 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
CMS Medicare PSI 90: Patient safety and adverse events compositeComplications and deaths1.05 (0.89 to 1.2)No differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Death rate for CABG surgery patientsComplications and deaths1.9 · 89 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Death rate for COPD patientsComplications and deaths7.5 · 85 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Death rate for heart attack patientsComplications and deaths10.1 · 132 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Death rate for heart failure patientsComplications and deaths6.6 · 454 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Death rate for pneumonia patientsComplications and deaths10.3 · 618 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Death rate for stroke patientsComplications and deaths9.6 · 380 casesNoneJul 2023 – Jun 2025
Hybrid Hospital-Wide All-Cause Risk Standardized Mortality RateComplications and deaths2.7 · 5,000 casesNoneJul 2024 – Jun 2025
Iatrogenic pneumothorax rateComplications and deaths0.22 (0.06 to 0.38) · 15,965 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
In-hospital fall-associated fracture rateComplications and deaths0.2 (0.05 to 0.35) · 17,859 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Postoperative acute kidney injury requiring dialysis rateComplications and deaths0.85 (0 to 1.83) · 4,184 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Postoperative hemorrhage or hematoma rateComplications and deaths2 (1.1 to 2.9) · 6,516 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Postoperative respiratory failure rateComplications and deaths7.35 (4.49 to 10.21) · 3,989 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Postoperative sepsis rateComplications and deaths5 (3.22 to 6.77) · 4,087 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Postoperative wound dehiscence rateComplications and deaths1.95 (0.74 to 3.15) · 2,034 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Pressure ulcer rateComplications and deaths0.95 (0.63 to 1.28) · 15,431 casesNo differentJul 2022 – Jun 2024
Rate of complications for hip/knee replacement patientsComplications and deaths4 · 399 casesNoneApr 2023 – Mar 2025
Catheter Associated Urinary Tract Infections (ICU + select Wards)Infections0.899No differentOct 2024 – Sep 2025
SSI - Abdominal HysterectomyInfections0.689No differentOct 2024 – Sep 2025
SSI - Colon SurgeryInfections1.224No differentOct 2024 – Sep 2025
Acute Myocardial Infarction (AMI) 30-Day Readmission RateUnplanned return visits16 · 156 casesNoneJul 2023 – Jun 2025
Heart failure (HF) 30-Day Readmission RateUnplanned return visits20 · 564 casesNoneJul 2023 – Jun 2025
Hospital return days for heart attack patientsUnplanned return visits60.3 · 160 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Hospital return days for heart failure patientsUnplanned return visits-9.7 · 550 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Hospital return days for pneumonia patientsUnplanned return visits44.1 · 660 casesNoneJul 2022 – Jun 2025
Pneumonia (PN) 30-Day Readmission RateUnplanned return visits16.8 · 667 casesNoneJul 2023 – Jun 2025
Rate of emergency department (ED) visits for patients receiving outpatient chemotherapyUnplanned return visits5.7 (4.8 to 6.7) · 2,019 casesNo differentJan 2024 – Dec 2024
Rate of readmission after hip/knee replacementUnplanned return visits6 · 421 casesNoneJul 2023 – Jun 2025
Rate of readmission for CABGUnplanned return visits10.5 · 53 casesNoneJul 2023 – Jun 2025
Rate of readmission for chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) patientsUnplanned return visits20 · 107 casesNoneJul 2023 – Jun 2025
Rate of unplanned hospital visits after colonoscopy (per 1,000 colonoscopies)Unplanned return visits13.9 (11.3 to 17.1) · 3,247 casesNo differentJan 2022 – Dec 2024

What patients said (3,181 patients answered, 25% of those asked)

Patient survey stars by topic at UCSF Medical Center
Cleanliness4
Nurse communication4
Doctor communication4
Communication about medicines3
Discharge information4
Overall hospital rating4
Quietness2
Recommend hospital5
Share of patients giving the best answer at UCSF Medical Center
Room was "always" clean71%
Nurses "always" communicated well80%
Doctors "always" communicated well80%
Staff "always" explained61%
Yes, staff "did" give patients this information88%
Yes, staff "did" give patients information about help after discharge87%
Doctors "always" explained things so they could understand74%
Doctors "always" listened carefully78%
Doctors "always" treated them with courtesy and respect86%
Patients who gave a rating of "9" or "10" (high)76%
Staff "always" explained new medications75%
Nurses "always" explained things so they could understand77%
Nurses "always" listened carefully78%
Nurses "always" treated them with courtesy and respect86%
"Always" quiet at night50%
"YES", patients would definitely recommend the hospital81%
Staff "always" explained possible side effects46%
Yes, staff "did" give patients information about possible symptoms90%

Original Medicare doctor bills

$27,546

Medicare paid this office $27,546 for 247 people.

This is what Medicare paid the clinician — not Medicare Advantage, and not the pharmacy.

Largest Original Medicare bills
Return visit (30+ min)85$7,433$70
Telephone medical discussion with physician, 21-30 minutes73$6,513$70
Short return visit (20+ min)90$4,574$42
Visit complexity inherent to evaluation and management associated with medical care services that serve as the continuing focal point for all needed health care services and/or with medical care services that are part of ongoing care related to a patient's171$2,927$12
Long return visit (40+ min)14$1,652$103
See all 7 services
Every Original Medicare service billed
Return visit (30+ min)85$7,433$70
Telephone medical discussion with physician, 21-30 minutes73$6,513$70
Short return visit (20+ min)90$4,574$42
Visit complexity inherent to evaluation and management associated with medical care services that serve as the continuing focal point for all needed health care services and/or with medical care services that are part of ongoing care related to a patient's171$2,927$12
Long return visit (40+ min)14$1,652$103
Telephone medical discussion with physician, 11-20 minutes19$937$43
Short return visit11$198$17

Procedures year by year

Procedures billed to Original Medicare by year
Procedure20202021202220232024
Simple bladder irrigation and/or instillation––22––

Times billed to Original Medicare each year. A blank year means fewer than 11 people had it, or none: Medicare does not publish smaller counts. Medicare Advantage patients are not included.

Who their Medicare patients are

247 Original Medicare patients in 2024. Average age 73 · Under 65 14% · 85 and older 10% · Women 39% · Also on Medicaid 36% · Health risk score 2.02. Above the middle of the specialty; the typical nurse practitioner clinician is at 1.42.

Conditions among them: High blood pressure 75% · Chronic kidney disease 49% · Diabetes 36% · Coronary heart disease 27% · Atrial fibrillation 26% · Depression 26% · Cancer 23% · Heart failure 20% · COPD 13% · Dementia 11% · Stroke 10%.

The office billed $226,111, Medicare allowed $37,120 and paid $27,546; for 678 services of 25 kinds.

Original Medicare patients only. A risk score of 1.0 is the average Medicare patient; higher means sicker. Any count under 11 is hidden.

Year by year

Original Medicare by year
2024247678732.02$226,111$27,546
2023266392721.88$149,817$19,431
2022216297731.71$125,240$13,818
2021125170712.11$72,208$9,098
2020203367691.34$133,601$17,197

Original Medicare only. A service billed for fewer than 11 people in a year is hidden, so the lines can add up to less than the year's total.

See the services billed each year

2023: 6 services

Original Medicare services billed in 2023
Short return visit (20+ min)126$6,865$45
Return visit (30+ min)37$2,786$73
Telephone medical discussion with physician, 21-30 minutes29$2,153$69
Telephone medical discussion with physician, 11-20 minutes41$2,152$45
Short return visit55$1,542$26
Long return visit (40+ min)12$1,215$101

2022: 7 services

Original Medicare services billed in 2022
Short return visit (20+ min)77$4,266$46
Return visit (30+ min)39$3,012$68
Telephone medical discussion with physician, 21-30 minutes16$1,278$75
Short return visit44$1,206$26
Long return visit (40+ min)12$1,177$98
Telephone medical discussion with physician, 11-20 minutes23$1,118$49
Simple bladder irrigation and/or instillation22$499$23

2021: 5 services

Original Medicare services billed in 2021
Short return visit (20+ min)42$2,352$55
Short return visit (20+ min)24$2,035$85
Return visit (30+ min)16$1,330$83
Telehealth originating site facility fee19$459$24
Short return visit12$331$28

2020: 3 services

Original Medicare services billed in 2020
Short return visit (20+ min)142$8,852$62
Telehealth originating site facility fee164$3,741$23
Return visit (30+ min)35$3,102$89

Medicaid work

$1,357 in 2020

Medicaid paid $1,357 for 57 billed services this clinician did in 2020, up to 17 people in a month for one service.

Medicaid and CHIP claims where this clinician did the service, fee-for-service and managed care together. Any month with fewer than 11 patients is hidden, so small Medicaid practices undercount.

Largest Medicaid services in 2020
Short return visit (20+ min)26$874
Telehealth originating site facility fee31$483
Medicaid work by year
202057217$1,357

Drugs they prescribed that Part D paid

$147,330

Pharmacies billed $147,330 in 2024.

This is pharmacy cost, not the office bill, and not what patients paid.

Opioids were 3% of their Part D prescriptions (28 of 1,075) in 2024. Above the middle of the specialty; the typical nurse practitioner clinician is at 0%.

1,005 generic and fewer than 11 brand-name prescriptions · $147,330 in drug cost · 199 antibiotic prescriptions to 162 people.

Part D prescriptions only. The opioid rate is opioid prescriptions as a share of all this clinician's Part D prescriptions; surgeons and pain specialists run higher than others, so it is shown against the same specialty.

Largest Part D drug costs
Myrbetriq25$24,120$965
Potassium Citrate Er169$18,655$110
Gemtesa13$8,102$623
Methenamine Hippurate47$3,698$79
Tamsulosin208$3,269$16
See all 20 drugs
Every Part D drug this clinician prescribed
Myrbetriq25$24,120$965
Potassium Citrate Er169$18,655$110
Gemtesa13$8,102$623
Methenamine Hippurate47$3,698$79
Tamsulosin208$3,269$16
Finasteride113$1,610$14
Estradiol22$1,596$73
Chlorthalidone59$805$14
Cefpodoxime Proxetil79$789$10
Nitrofurantoin Mono-Macro19$693$36
Oxybutynin Chloride Er21$329$16
Alfuzosin Hcl Er14$230$16
Sulfamethoxazole-Trimethoprim48$166$3
Oxybutynin Chloride18$128$7
Potassium Chloride11$113$10
Amoxicillin-Clavulanate Potass16$91$6
Lorazepam34$37$1
Hydrocodone-Acetaminophen25$23$1
Levofloxacin11$19$2
Hydrochlorothiazide17$15$1

Year by year

Part D prescribing by year
20241,0753943% (28)None$147,330
20236662090% (0)12%$195,502
20223251190% (0)14%$62,434
202114None0% (0)None$639

Part D prescriptions only. A drug prescribed to fewer than 11 people in a year is hidden.

See the drugs prescribed each year

2023: 12 drugs

Part D drugs prescribed in 2023
Thiola Ec11$116,624$10,602
Myrbetriq26$20,320$782
Potassium Citrate Er120$16,604$138
Methenamine Hippurate32$3,468$108
Tamsulosin130$3,398$26
Estradiol19$2,332$123
Finasteride103$1,316$13
Oxybutynin Chloride Er22$748$34
Chlorthalidone39$697$18
Nitrofurantoin Mono-Macro32$522$16
Oxybutynin Chloride26$512$20
Sulfamethoxazole-Trimethoprim16$113$7

2022: 8 drugs

Part D drugs prescribed in 2022
Myrbetriq17$12,521$737
Potassium Citrate Er46$7,444$162
Methenamine Hippurate18$1,950$108
Tamsulosin69$1,232$18
Oxybutynin Chloride Er12$463$39
Finasteride43$381$9
Nitrofurantoin Mono-Macro27$366$14
Sulfamethoxazole-Trimethoprim13$71$5

Money from drug and device companies

$69 in 2025

A payment is not proof that care is biased.

Payments by company
Janssen BiotechRybrevant$69
1 payment
  • Meals for Rybrevant · 2025-04-26 · $69
See the published payment
Every published payment
Janssen BiotechMeals · 2025-04-26Rybrevant$69

Checkups this office reported

Medicare did not publish checkup rates for this clinician.

Medicare’s overall office score
76.5 / 100
Scores the office’s reporting and systems. It is not a grade for how the doctor treats you.

Professional record

NPI
1104488089
Licence
CA 95010654
Group
University of California San Francisco · UCSF Medical Group Business Services
Video visits
Lists video visits
Gender
Male
More record details
Sole proprietor
No
Taxonomy
Nurse practitioner (363L00000X)
Mailing address
300 Pasteur Dr, Stanford, CA, 94305
NPI first listed
2019-07-01
NPI last updated
2023-03-24
NPI record certified
2023-03-24

This is when the NPI record was last certified, not a medical board exam.